Ep. 32 - YouTube
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[00:00:00]
Jeremy: All right, guys, welcome back to the How To Real Estate Podcast. Today, we're going to talk about a very important topic.
So before we get into it, you guys, if you have not already subscribed to the channel, hit the bell so you get notifications and follow us on all platforms. We're on Instagram, TikTok. Are we on Facebook? I think so. Maybe not.
No we're not on Facebook. Not
on Facebook. YouTube. Those are the most important ones anyway. Right. So follow us on those.
Today's topic. Well, first let me introduce ours. Who, but first let me introduce us. Who are we? You may want to know. We are your hosts. I'm Jeremy Smith and this is Kiel Lindsey. Kiel. What's up, dude?
Kiel: Hey, yeah. So I just waved at the camera, which everyone on Spotify and Apple podcasts, I'm sure that you're appreciating an audio only format.
Jeremy: Yeah. You didn't hear that wave.
Kiel: Yeah, you didn't hear it. The wind going by, but yeah, I'm excited to talk about today's topic because you see this all the time where [00:01:00] lenders will kill deals.
One of my favorite radio stations here in DFW The Ticket likes to talk about their HSOs, their hot sports opinions.
Okay.
And I got some HSOs on lenders. One of my favorite hot sports opinions about these guys is they are not, you know, this isn't what this podcast is about, but I'm going a little bit on my soapbox here.
They're not held accountable in transactions. So they'll tell you something is good. And then the day of closing or the day before they'll screw it all up. And all of a sudden you can't close and your buyer's earnest money is now on the hook because they missed their deadline to tell you that the transaction couldn't go through, but they have zero financial accountability for that.
And that really bothers me. So choosing the right lender is critical because you as an agent, you have a fiduciary responsibility to your client. And if you're recommending people that you haven't really vetted or verified or done a deal with and they kill the transaction, you know that's not your fault, but guilty by [00:02:00] association, your client is not really gonna thank you for that.
Jeremy: for
sure. Absolutely. And so that is the main focus of our episode today is how to choose a great lender partner, right?
It's so, so critical, you know, also think about it this way. You as the agent, you went out there and you got a lead, right? Let's just say this lead. took a lot of work to get. However, you got it. Many ways to get a lead. Whatever it was, it took you a lot of work. You got the lead. Through your efforts, you generated this business.
You did your buyer consultation. You created a client. And then you just put money in your lender's pocket by saying, Hey, here's a lead. The lender didn't do anything but exist and know you, right? And so you give the lender this lead, they do their thing. You're trusting that everything that they're doing is right, because they're a lender and all lendors great in your opinion.
Cause maybe you don't know any better.
And so, they give you an approval letter, you go out shopping, you [00:03:00] spend weeks looking at homes, hours upon hours negotiating contracts, you get a, get them something accepted, you get through a rough option period, but you make it through, you can just see the finish line, you're almost there, buyers excited, you're excited, everything's good to go, couple days before closing, All of this comes crashing down because the lender missed something in the very beginning.
And now they don't qualify, they lose their earnest money. You've lost all of this time that you invested into this transaction. The seller is out money. The listing agent is out a closing. Everybody gets screwed, right? Because of a mistake that was made in the very beginning. And this has happened so many freaking times.
I'm going through this actually right now with a listing, a land listing we have. It's a private money deal. So it's a little bit different than your conventional financing. We were supposed to close this deal like last [00:04:00] Tuesday. Todays Thursday. So we're a weekend, almost a week and a half over, they're telling us we're going to close tomorrow.
Right. But we've been hearing that for the past fricking week,
Fingers
Kiel: crossed.
Jeremy: fingers crossed, we keep pushing it back, you know, and so buyers earnest money is at risk. You know, if this lender doesn't pull through, sellers going to not extend, buyers going to lose their earnest money. Everybody's going to be back to square one.
Right. So there's a lot of, a lot at stake that falls on the lender, you know, and I don't think as real estate agents, we give it that much thought. You know,
a lot of times agents will go to an event or they'll meet somebody at a a place and they'll hit it off with them, right? Cause they're nice.
Oh, this person is great. They're a lender. I'm going to send them business. I've seen this happen a lot. I did this when I was brand new. Oh, that person looks cool. That person looks like they do a lot of business, send them a bunch of business. And then they drop the ball on you. And then you're just left holding the bag.
So what are some ways that these agents listening to this podcast [00:05:00] can put into practice that would help them to know if the lender they're going to be working with is a good lender or somebody that they probably shouldn't be partnered with.
Kiel: So, you know, we're going to get into a couple of different ways to do this. But first, the first and easiest ways are talk to people that you know and trust that have done deals with them.
That's the easiest way, word of mouth referrals. But here's the key is you need to trust the people giving you the referral and the word of mouth. I mean, it, if you're just trusting like a couple of Google reviews or something like that. And you, again, if you've never done a deal with this lender, be cautious, be very cautious. And that's when you want to really talk to lender and maybe go through some of this checklist we're about to give you.
So first up on our list here is you want to find out about their experience. And this is several different ways to ask this. Just like we all know those agents who've been in the business for 30 years. And this is how I've always done it, right? [00:06:00] Duration is not the same as deals.
So I would much rather have a lender who's had their license for five years and does a hundred deals a year than somebody who's had it for 20 and does 20 deals a year. Maybe they've done more deals total, but they're not doing nearly the volume. They're not nearly as practiced with what's happening in the market currently.
So, what are the, what's another way to look at experience there?
Jeremy: You know, so I kind of going back to what you already said, is the referrals, you know, and,
When I got into real estate, I specifically remember partnering with a couple lenders that are both still in the business now, but I haven't done business with them in years.
And the reason why I started working with them is because other agents that were more seasoned than myself said, Hey, well, I've been using this person for years. Right. And so that meant something to me, right. It is that as a new agent, that was really the only way I knew to judge their level of experience was based off of somebody else's review.
No, or their experience [00:07:00] with them. Otherwise, I like to ask them now, like now, if I have a new lender that we're vetting, whether or not we're going to be business partners with them, I'll straight up ask them, Hey, how many loans, how many FHA loans are you doing a year? How many conventional loans are you doing a year?
How many VA loans are you doing a year? What is your experience? And hopefully they tell you the truth, but also, through talking with them you can kind of get a feel for their, the depth of their knowledge, right? Maybe they're going to tell you some experiences they had that were, you know, they saved this deal or, you know, this deal fell apart, but they learned this.
Cause I really, I don't fault lenders all the time for deals falling apart because there are times when deals fall apart and the lender did everything that they could. And the buyer just either situations change or they didn't disclose some stuff or they weren't, you know, I guess the same thing they weren't forthcoming with information.
Jeremy: And then I had one, not that a couple of years ago, actually, where they were buying a home [00:08:00] had gotten pre approved. But then when they got into the underwriting, they found out that the wife had $30,000 in credit card debt that the husband didn't know about.
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So that wasn't the lender's fault, you know, so, but that's a good opportunity to learn, right?
So that's what I'm doing. You know, I'm just kind of picking their brains, looking to other folks and seeing what their experience has been with them and just straight up asking them how many transactions have you done, how long have you been in the business and kind of trying to gauge their knowledge through conversation.
Kiel: Yeah I like to as a little bit of a data junkie, if a lender can't tell me some of these numbers, that's kind of a red flag for me. And mainly that means because they're kind of flying by the seat of their pants. Yeah. And they may not be tracking certain business metrics and things that they should be.
Now, they may not be completely a hundred percent dialed in. That's fine. But I also wanna know how many of your deals didn't go through? How many a deal, how many of your deals went under contract and did go through?
But I'm okay with that As long as they had [00:09:00] enough other body of evidence that they did good jobs. Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah. And that they learn from it too, because we all make mistakes, you know, so if you screwed up and the deal didn't close, okay, cool. Did you learn from that? Are you still doing the same shit?
Right.
Love it, man. So, kind of a good segue into this and really where I would figure out during this conversation if this is somebody I want to work with is how is their communication?
Yeah. Right. That's another one. So there are different ways to communicate and different reasons for communication with the lender. Right.
One part of communication is how are they educating clients? Like we do buyer consultations, right? And we educate the client on the whole process.
And what we tell them in those consultations is, Hey, talk to your lender about your closing costs, right? The lender should be able to educate them on what those closing costs are, what they're going to be, why those things are there, what taxes look like what the programs look like, what the process looks like.
And if they are in alignment with us, they're heavy on education, right? And building up that[00:10:00] that relationship in the beginning and it just flows well for our team because we are so big on communication. If the lender is also big on communication, it just, it's a good match because it shows all around that we're all about communicating,
Right.
right?
And all about educating. But what are some other communication things that you look for?
Kiel: speed to communication, because sometimes you have a question about something and you can't wait 2 days to hear from them. Yes. you know, hey, what's the trick with this loan? Or
hey, I've run into this weird situation. you know, certain loan questions that we are not supposed to know how to answer. They should, or that one weird loan problem that happens once every 10 years. There's no way I'm going to know how to deal with that. I need to talk to a lender.
And they don't answer their phone, or they don't call you back, or you can't get them through text. Obviously, that's like a baseline. You've got to be able to communicate and get back to me.
The other thing is one of our lenders is fantastic at this: updating lead status. One of the worst things you could do, or the way you feel, is like kind of like Jeremy was talking about earlier, as you go through [00:11:00] all this trouble to acquire a lead, you've been maybe talking to them for two or three years and they're finally ready.
And you say, Hey, you gotta go get pre approved. You know, you do your buyer consult, you talk about everything and you say, well, your next step is go get pre approved by a lender. And you send your lender their info. You send the lender info to your client.
And then two weeks goes by and you don't hear anything from anyone.
The worst.
And you're just like, now you have to step in and monitor the communication for your lender. Now you're doing their job basically. Yeah. We, one of our preferred lenders is probably the best at this. And it's just like in the, they have a lead follow up program. Yeah. And part of that is you're copied on everything.
Yep.
And the first seven days are completely mapped out. You're hearing from that lender every single day about what they've done and what's happened. And after seven days, it goes to every other day. And then after a few more days, it goes to every third day. And it's it's a step by step lead.
And anyway, so you know, they haven't dropped your lead.
Jeremy: Yeah. They're the partner with you in the follow up
Yes.
And I love it too, because they'll send those emails over and it's a [00:12:00] checklist,
And let's just say there's 10 items, 10 items on the checklist. Well, they never shorten the checklist. They just. One line, the things that they've done, right? So day one. One line, done. Day two, done. So you can see just at a glance where they're at in the follow up process. And I do really like that.
Yeah.
I
Kiel: love it. Yeah. I just, same thing like when you send an offer and you never hear back I want to know what the hell's going on. So, you know, these are valuable leads and if you're not going to treat them the same way with the importance that I feel about them, because I've worked so hard to get this lead and this client, then I'm going to move on to the next lender.
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely. So communication, the educating, the follow up process.
I think another important thing is their approval process, right? So here's where I've had struggles in the past where lenders would just try to send out these pre approvals like 10 minutes, right? Talk to you on the phone, get some information, send out a pre approval.
Well, at face value, that's great, right? It [00:13:00] enables you to move quicker. But what it also does is it exposes you to a lot more risk of this thing not actually being valuable, right? So I prefer the approval process to be, Hey, we're going to talk to them either face to face or on the phone. We're going to run their credit.
We're going to get their documentation. We're going to put it through desktop underwriting. We're going to make sure that these folks are good and sure it's going to take three, four days. But on that fourth day, when we get that pre approval letter, It's a legit pre approval letter. You're not going to waste any time.
Kiel: Yeah. Once again, like that same lender I'm referencing and they're pretty much, you know, gold standard in our opinion.
But when you get a pre approval from them, like you can write a zero day offer. most buyers are uncomfortable with that and I don't necessarily recommend that, but they've told us like, once we give the pre approval, you can put zero days in that buyer approval, like they're done.
They've already been underwritten.
Jeremy: Yep.
Kiel: It's okay,
Jeremy: awesome.
It's so important, man. It's so important. And I think that's something that most agents just don't understand because [00:14:00] they're just focused on the speed, you know, well, let's hurry up and get this in hurry up and get that in. But when you rush, you're leaving a lot of things uncovered.
And then it catches up to you. You know, it can catch up to you. And then at the last minute, you know, and then earnest money is lost. Time is lost. Like we talked about earlier. So that's something for me, approval process is huge. Ask the lender about their approval process. See what they do.
You know? , the person who is most thorough is the person that's also gonna have the highest closing percentage. Right?
Kiel: percentage.
Right. Yeah. In 2022, speed to everything was important. And so that's fine. If you need to get that pre approval cranked out because everything has to be fast right this second, that's it. But we're not in that market anymore. Take the extra couple of days and make sure it's
Jeremy: it's right. And even if that market comes back, it's still just a few days. You may not be able to write a, a very confident offer. Right. But if you're talking to somebody like, Hey, we're thinking about getting into, we're thinking about going and buying a home, here's where we start.
Right. [00:15:00] If we're going to be successful in this, especially in today's market with things going as fast as they go to protect you guys, we need to do this. So that you're secure. Good stuff. So next thing we have is a niche expertise.
Kiel: So, when I think of this, we can, as real estate agents can also niche down like we can just be first time home buyers or, you know, just veterans or farm a certain neighborhood, a lot of us will work with anybody.
Some of us are just really good at one thing and your lender needs to be, needs to compliment that.
So let's say if you're, you just work with veterans, like that's your bread and butter. Well, your lender needs to be the same way. They need to be experts on the VA loan. They need to know all the ins and outs because once again, jumping on my soapbox real quick, the VA loan is one of the best loans out there.
And most realtors turn their nose up at it. They don't understand the VA loan.
Mmhmm.
you need to get better understanding, but what you really need to do is find a lender who understands the loan and can really explain the benefits [00:16:00] to you and the benefits to your veteran client and how to actually really manipulate and use that loan to get great deals for your clients and really protect the seller too.
For sure.
So just when you think of niching down, just think of what type of buyer are you working for or working with?
Like a self employed buyer is completely different than an FHA buyer. And if your lender doesn't work with those or have an expert on their team who does that, once again, like you're doing a disservice to your client.
Jeremy: Absolutely. And another perspective of that is we have multiple lenders that we use. We have two preferred lenders. They're both very good. But I think one of them is better suited for investment, investors, right?
So knowing the lender's niche, when you have a client that fits that niche, you know which lender to send it to, right?
Hey, I'm going to go. The other one could be good at it, but this one's great at it, right? So it's two totally different things. And I had a lender that I used to work [00:17:00] with who I don't anymore. Great person. But this is the reason why, because I thought that this person was good at VA stuff. So I sent this lender a VA buyer and the lender said, Hey, you cannot use your BAH, which is Basic Allowance for Housingto qualify for your loan.
And I don't know if this was just this lender's understanding or this was the part of the criteria for the particular brokerage that she worked at. I don't know, but she said that and it wasn't true, right? So the way we found out it wasn't true was this person went and got approved by another lender and bought a house with another agent.
So I lost out on the client. She lost out on the loan because she didn't know that was possible. So fast forward, right? Stopped doing business with this person at that moment. Fast forward to just, and this was years ago, just last year, a client that had worked with this lender in the past that actually [00:18:00] was successful in purchasing a home, wanted to sell his home.
So he calls me up. He wants to sell the home and he wants to buy another home. This lender, he calls the lender. Okay, cool. I'm not going to get in the way of that. He called the lender, went to get pre approved using a VA loan again, and the, and was told you cannot qualify for that house without selling your current house.
Well, that wasn't going to work for him in this particular situation because he wanted to buy a new construction and they're like, Hey, you got to close by this date if you're going to do it. So he went to their lender and got approved for that home without selling his current home. Good thing he stuck with me.
Right. So, so he ended up closing and then this lender was like, baffled, like what happened? Well, you weren't an expert in that field. And so he went somewhere else. You almost cost me two deals, right? So make sure that the lenders you're working with have a niche that you understand what their strengths and their weaknesses are, and then have a couple that you can say, okay, well, this one's [00:19:00] better at that.
Let me go there. That one's better at this. Let me go there. At the end of the day, as much as we like our lenders, we, this is a business relationship, right? And if your business isn't making money, that's a problem. And if there's something in your business, even a partnership that's costing you money,
that could be a problem too.
You got to be aware of that.
Kiel: Yeah. It, you know, not to bash, everyone starts somewhere. For sure. And so, not to bash some of these lenders, but some of them either they may not have much experience, but realistically we know 87% of real estate agents fail.
We know there's break down the 80/20 rule. 20% of the agents do 80% of the business, and really, in real estate, it's 4% of the agents do 64% of the business. It's nuts, but lenders are kind of the same. There are better lenders than some. And so just because someone has recommended or you, or they were nice at an event or you saw them wherever, they bought you a lunch at a lunch and learn, doesn't mean you should use them.
Now, one of the pulling back the veil a little bit, one of our favorite lenders also likes to joke that, [00:20:00] like the requirements to get your lending license are abysmally small. Yeah. Texas as real estate agents, if you're listening outside of Texas, we have to do 160 hours and then pass our test.
Yeah.
Well lenders
do 24 hours. They're basically learning how to fill out the Fannie and Freddie guidelines and evaluate people's criteria and that's it. Yeah.
Yeah,
So these people may not even own their own home, that's fine. You know, a lot of agents may not, when they start own their own home. But they don't really understand the implications here.
They're just salespeople for the most part. So finding those lenders who really know their craft and actually care. That's a big one for me is they got to care about the deal.
Have to.
Like how many times, and I will, blanket statement here, if your lender is a large institutional lender, they are probably not very good because they don't give a shit.
They do hundreds, thousands of loans a month, and they just, it's a cog in a machine. If every step of the way, especially like just recently [00:21:00] I had a transaction where the, it was my listing and the buyer was with Bank of America.
Okay. Yeah. So,
every stage of the transaction was someone different at Bank of America.
And you'd call the loan originator and be like, Hey, what's going on? I don't know. It's with underwriting. Well, can I get underwritings number? No. Well, you're supposed to keep me informed of the process. It's in the contract. Well, tough. It's well, or someone else would email you and you try to get an answer
and it'd be two or three days every time. It's just
yeah.
find a good, strong, local lender who cares and will love on your clients like you do. it's so important. It's if any one of your vendors in your arsenal had to be five stars, gold standard, your lender needs to be that one.
Jeremy: 100%. It's got to be.
So we, we used to do business with a lender that I actually love as a person, like love this person like to death. And the, and like this next topic, this person shined here, right? And so [00:22:00] that is support, right? Support of you as the agent. How is the lender supporting you? Cause you're, you'll hear a lot of lenders say, Hey, I'm going to show you how I can help you grow your business.
And they're going to tell you about all these, you know, programs that they have and how they're cool as shit. But you need somebody that's going to support you, right? Cause the reality is you're going to do a lot of legwork. You're going to send them a lot of business and you should be tracking that.
But this person gave financial support. Showed up to open houses, donated stuff. I mean, this person was gold standard here, right in the support area. But he had limitations and some of the limitations were due to where he worked. Right. And some of the other limitations was due to really what he liked most.
Right. And so that's an important consideration to like some people preferred working with a certain clientele just like we do. Right. Some people prefer doing certain programs, like going back to the niches. Right. This person was excellent in communication, especially when it was a file that was just a slam dunk, right?
A higher net worth easy [00:23:00] peasy deals shined. Could still do the harder deals, right? But it wasn't like, there wasn't like a whole lot of problem solving there. It's you know, this, no, don't qualify. Right. Nope. Sorry. Doesn't qualify. Right. And not because they couldn't qualify but it was just going to take too much work.
Right, to get them to qualify. So I lumped that into support because we have lenders now that will support us and that lead fully, like they won't accept no, it doesn't qualify right now, but we're trying to figure out how to make it work. Right. Right. And I would much rather hear that than just a, you know,
Nail
in the coffin, they're done.
But sometimes that is the case, you know, sometimes that is the case, but other ways that lenders can support you again, financial, right. Helping with ad spend, helping with systems and processes, financially, going to open houses with you and then training. And that's a good way to figure out how much an agent knows is when they conduct trainings.
Yeah.
We've had several agents that are [00:24:00] several lenders that have come here and done very good trainings.
Kiel: We've had several that come here and did not so great trainings.. Expose themselves a little bit.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Have they, I don't know if those folks have been back.
Kiel: No, they were not invited back if I believe. The support is so important because you are partners. And this is another thing to think about because when I also think of support, I think of referrals backwards
A hundred percent.
The lenders job is obviously they're marketing to us as agents. Yes, lenders can get on social media and post free content, maybe attract a few buyers themselves, but their main source of referrals are normallyrepeat clients. Clients help buy a house, a few years later, they're, you know, 87% of agents fail. Maybe their agent's not in business anymore, now we can get a referral. And if they're not reciprocating, look at that relationship. How many leads did you send them? And how many deals did you close with them? Have they reciprocated?
Are they trying to? If they can't reciprocate in referrals, they literally still don't have them to give. Just like Jeremy said, how are they supporting you [00:25:00] financially in your lead generation efforts? Are they helping you with open houses? Are they helping you with ad spend? There's other websites that a lender has to be on like Homebot or List Reports like that.
You have to get access through a lender. Are they helping you with that? Anyway, there's a lot of ways a lender can support you. Make sure they're doing at least a couple of them.
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely. Definitely do that because it will help you with your monthly expenses and it also gives them more buy in on those leads, right?
Because it's not something they just got for free. They are paying, right? One way or another. Like Kiel mentioned, your lender partner is going to be one of your most important partnerships you're going to have in real estate. Hands down they'll help you get through stuff. They'll educate you.
They will save deals that other lenders, I've had some of our lenders that saved several deals that other lenders couldn't do. Just so happens they're all VA deals. But I've had several of them save deals, you know, make things [00:26:00] happen that weren't going to happen, but they found a way to do it. And then over time, you get to trust them, right?
You get to trust them. And so now when they've built up that equity, they tell you something is not going to work, cool, you know, it's not going to work. You're not second guessing them looking for a second opinion, right? Or if they tell you something is going to work, you can rest easy knowing that, Hey, this person is so consistent when they say something's going to work,
it works 99% of the time, right? Or a hundred percent of time. based off of, you know, their efforts. Sometimes again, sometimes we don't always, they don't always get the right information, right? So it just builds up so much confidence and surety and then when you're talking with somebody, you're like, you got to talk to this person and you can do that with confidence.
They're more likely to go talk to that person that you want them to talk to because they see it and feel it from you that you're bought in on that person's ability and that the team, you know, together you and the lender are solid.
Kiel: Yeah, and [00:27:00] when you really boil it way back down.
Like this is one of the reasons people hire you. Like your referral or your vendor list is one of the pieces of value you bring to the equation. And so if your lenders suck, that is a direct reflection on your value.
Jeremy: Yep,
Yep. I've lost business because of stuff like that. I've
Kiel: yeah.
If you've been in the business long enough, we all have.
Jeremy: Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, and contractors, I've lost clients because I sent them somebody that I thought was a good contractor and they weren't, you know. I've got a client right now that's having a bad experience with a home inspector that, that I referred, you know, and it is a. a blemish on you, you know, if you refer bad people, right?
So if that happens, move quickly, move away from that person quickly. Don't stick around because you, you feel like there's a perceived friendship because you are not that lender's only real estate agent.
Correct.
You are not. They need business from realtors, we're their clients. Right. And we give them clients and they're going to go to [00:28:00] work with, they will work with every realtor they possibly can that will give them business.
Right. there's not the loyalty in that. Right. So
Don't be loyal to a fault when it comes to lenders. Move quickly if you need to, but when you find a good one, stick with them.
Yeah, a hundred percent. Good
Good stuff. All right, guys,
I think we're done bashing lenders. If you're a lender, if you're good one, we love you. We really do. We appreciate you guys. Couldn't do it without you. You know, definitely couldn't do it without you. So, thankful for the lender partners we have. If you guys are in the Fort Worth Metroplex and you need some lender recommendations, hit us up, you know, we can point you in the right direction.
We've got two that we use, but we know a bunch of others that are really good. So we've got an abundance of referrals for you and go forth and do this work, right? Make sure you're picking the right folks because it's going to have a positive impact or negative impact on your business. If you have any other questions on how to real estate, let us [00:29:00] know.
You can email us at the real estate, thehowtorealestatepodcast@gmail.com. I always forget that email address.
It'll be in the show notes.
It'll be in the show notes. Yeah. And then links are in there too. So you guys can go back and listen to other episodes. And that's
Kiel: all I got.
got. Awesome. Thank you guys for for listening. And if you know someone who could find value in what we've talked about today, Share the share the love by sharing the the link whatever platform you're on, share with someone.
We definitely would appreciate it because we need to get this information out to as many people as possible and ditch those
Jeremy: bad lenders.
and Get em out of here. Alright guys, have a good one. Happy 2024. Goodbye.
